Copyright © 2010 L/L Research
Carla’s interview on Wynn Free’s “Monday Night Conference Call” program on BBS Radio
November 23, 2009
Wynn: Okay, let’s see if this works. Everyone on the phone line, we did this last week and it was kind of fun. When I count to three, everyone who is on the phone line, please say hello to BBS listeners. One, two, three.
Voices: Hello BBS.
Wynn: All of BBS listeners, say hello back, but they have to think and send love our way so that we feel a wave of love coming back when we do it. One, two, three.
Terry: They jumped the gun. They started as soon as you said it.
Wynn: They did? I get very confused because from where I sit, all the energies [are] in this state, all of the people out there in the BBS audience and all the guys in the other room. Okay, I’d like to welcome everybody who is listening on BBS and people that are listening on the replay line. This is Wynn Free and this is our Monday night conference call, which is a group energy experience between all those on the conference line, all of you listening on BBS and those group souls in other realms that show up as energy in our space very often.
Tonight, I am honored to have Carla Rueckert. Carla has a reputation of being one of the most highly regarded channels on the planet. And then we have other channel, who is Teri Brown, who is got a reputation as being the only person who goes around to the parking lot of McDonald’s and channels! Carla, you don’t know Teri’s work. This is a show that is dedicated to Carla. Teri is there just supporting the energy.
Now, just a little bit of background on Carla. Carla, can you hear me?
Carla: I can hear you. In l970 I was still working as a librarian, but I had started being partners with Don [Elkins] in our research. We were writing a book together in ‘70. It has been a long time!
Wynn: And you were you were channeling discarnate entities and space people, is that correct?
Carla: Yes, I started [channeling] in ‘74. There were other people in the group that started as early as 1962. But I didn’t particular care to channel. So for twelve years I lurked. I just listened to the other people channeling. I didn’t learn channeling until Don asked me to, because everybody was moving away and getting jobs and growing up and it was time for a new channel. So that is when I learned. I was a latecomer. I didn’t start till ‘74. Teri, when did you start channeling?
Terry: I started in 1995 but I couldn’t get Wynn interested at all. He wouldn’t even come to the sessions.
Carla: Well he seems to have become a fan now.
Wynn: Actually, Teri, I think I had an innate fear of getting involved in channeling because I was afraid.
Carla: You were thinking, “I don’t want to change this much.”
Wynn: I think this is a fear that a lot of people have when it comes to channeling. Someone is talking to you and they suddenly seem to know a lot and they have the ability to be very highly prophetic or psychic. I was afraid of giving my power up to a source like that. I said, “What should I do? What should I do?” And I had no idea [whether it was a negative source or a positive source. I didn’t even know there was such a thing as a negative source. So intuitively I avoided the whole thing. I remember Teri was going to this lady’s house, Cheryl T, who was channeling. I dropped Teri off and I wouldn’t go in. I left. Did you actually [learn to] channel there, Teri?
Terry: I did. She taught us how to channel and then I actually did a channeling there. I only did one channeling. Then I didn’t do it again until later, after you met Daphne and Daphne started channeling. And then Daphne left and they started coming through me, like tapping me on the shoulder or the side of the head and saying, “We want to talk to Wynn.” And I’d say, “Well maybe you could talk to me, he’s asleep.” And they’d say, “No, no, we want to talk to him.” So it started.
Wynn: Are you familiar with that story, Carla?
Carla: You have told it to me before.
Wynn: It was very funny. I was in a twilight zone when that happened. I said, “No, this can’t be happening.”
Carla: I think it is good that you think things like that, don’t you? I think that the discernment sharing is so important. You really can’t give your power away. You do really have to listen for the resonance. You can’t just say, “Oh, it is a channeling so it must be good.” You can’t do that at all. You need to keep your discrimination going. And we all have it.
Wynn: I tell that to people over and over on this show, because some people, when they hear channeling, say, “Oh, I want to channel. I want to channel.” And I don’t think people begin to understand what that means.
Carla: I don’t think people would be leaping into it if they grasped that you have to live the life that backs up the channeling or it goes nowhere fast. I always try to discourage people from it as hard as I can before I will take them on as students, because it really is a hard path of service. It really takes a life, you know. And that is a lot to give. I think it is a wonderful thing if you are called to it, but I certainly would discourage anyone from just playing with it, because it is nothing to play with.
Wynn: You can say that again. I don’t know about you, but I know within the groups that have been around me, I had some amazing things happen that showed me without a shadow of a doubt that there was such a thing as negative sources. I remember a couple of years ago, about three years ago, there was a woman who was coming to one of my conference calls. She suddenly said she was channeling, and then after awhile she wasn’t at the call. She was calling people on the line, saying that they were talking to her and they wanted her to have a little meeting with people, but not to tell Wynn so they could prove themselves. This went on for about a month, until finally somebody told me. And I said, “Well, maybe it is so.” Luckily I had two sources to run this by, both Daphne and Teri. So I ran it by them and they both came up with the same thing: that a negative source was tapping into this woman and they wanted to use her to divide the energy of what I was creating.
We are in a world of double-blind mirrors. I could say, how do I know that I don’t have a negative source? You have to learn to be really sharp. I know that one of Carla’s guidelines—the wisdom of which I don’t necessarily, I understand, and I don’t necessarily abide by it myself completely—is that if you want to be sure you don’t have a negative source come through, you only have questions that are as true ten-thousand years from now as they are now, but not questions that are transitory.
Carla: What you are looking for in a positive channel is this information that can be as true several years from now as it is now. The way that I work with people who want less than eternal information is, I ask them to ask whatever question it is, in such a way that they say, “What spiritual principles will help me think about this problem?” And that way, my source doesn’t have to detune and can give as much positive information as it can. If [questioners] just say, “Well, I’m scared about 2012 and I want to know what is going to happen,” I’m lost. They are going to have to go to another channel. I am not going to detune in order to answer a theoretical question. It is not going to happen. I am really jealous and like a mother hen about this contact. Teri, do you know what I mean? You love the contact. You don’t want to abuse the contact
Terry: Yes. I know what you are saying because sometimes the questions are so transitory. And they never come out and say, “Well, yeah you should be thin,” or something. They always give [the spiritual] principles behind [a topic] and [offer thoughts on] how to evaluate something. I really love it, you see, when the information is eternal. Then it’s good information.
Carla: Yeah. It is a matter of frequency. I mean, we are [vibrating on] a frequency. Our universe is a frequency. The Creator is frequency. The pure frequency is the frequency of love, absolute Logos. When you are looking for good information, you are looking for information that is as little distorted from the vibration of pure love as possible. You are looking to lessen distortion.
And what causes distortion? Fear causes distortion. So if you accept fear-based questions—usually people are asking about whatever the cosmic buzz is, you know, 2012 right now—if you are looking for specific information that is going to matter in 2009, but not necessarily in 2010, like who is going to win the Kentucky Derby, if you allow that amount of distortion, than you are going to get distorted information. It is a matter of frequency.
So you tune yourself as a channel to the least distorted, the most transparent frequency that you can carry. You are human, right, but you do carry consciousness. So you just try to get out of the way of that. And then, whatever your consciousness is, whatever that frequency is, you are able to pull in the congruent unseen frequency from elsewhere, shall we say, from time/space whether from outer sources or from inner sources. But at any rate, whether angelic or extra-terrestrial, you are looking for the least distorted information. Naturally, we all want to know the truth. That’s what we are here to do.
We are here to desire and to satisfy our desires. And when people wake up and want to know the truth, then the question is, just how do you go about that? And really, it is a matter of beginning to seek for the heart of things so that you are getting closer to what is real. The ground of being is what created all that there is. And that is unconditional love, not fear. So we are going in the right direction when we are tuning to love.
I think that is the great problem with a lot of the very fear-based information about organic “whatchamajiggers” and “ichthyloids” and “serpentoids”. I don’t read too much of that stuff because it is so fear-based, but let’s look at it logically.
We are approaching graduation. We’ve got two paths towards graduation. We have service-to-others and we have service-to-self. So you are going to see wonderful people who are polarizing like crazy towards service-to-others. And you are going to see unseen types of information that support that kind of effort. You are also going to see people attempting as hard as ever they can to be graduated in service-to-self. There are going to be some real rotters around and the rotters are also going to be backed by unseen friends who are icky.
So, you can have all that fear-based stuff and go, “Ooh,” but you see, you can also have all that love-based stuff and go, “Aah.” Now in which direction would you rather pay attention? I think that whether or not horrible things are going to happen here and there is sort of like
You can focus on one of [these] two things with great success. You can focus on the fear and you can tie yourself in knots. You can focus on love and see the Creator in everyone. You [can] see that, no matter how chaotic things might get, this just brings out the beauty in everyone as everyone tries to help everyone else and heroes are everywhere, where there is a tragedy there is someone to help. You can celebrate and say “Alleluia,” and say, “I hope that I am someone that the Creator can count on in this particular time to be a lighthouse, to have fearlessness and to look for the ways to support and encourage whatever is good around us.”
People say, “What if we die?” And I am going, “Well, I’ll die saying alleluia, alleluia, alleluia! I hope I served while I was alive.”
And that is what I think about all of this negative stuff that is going around.
What do you think about that, Wynn?
(Carla: At this point, there was a failure in both Wynn’s and Teri’s connections to BBS Radio. The producer came on the air and asked me to talk about whatever I wished, as I was the only one on the air at that point.)
Carla: Oh, is that right? Okay, let’s see. It’s been an interesting week for me. I’ve had some incredible nerve pain. I really see it as a test. When you are in a certain amount of pain, it’s a challenge. The challenge is not to function as much as it is to stay positive and to remember the gratitude that you have, to think over every blessing and to remain in that love vibration and in that fearlessness. I don’t think I am the only one that might be in the dark night of the bodily soul—or the emotional soul or mental soul. Right now, I think that suffering is pretty widespread. We all are having these temptations to be distracted from our faith in the goodness and truth of love. We say, “Well why all these hard things? And how in the world can I remain completely faithful?”
Hey, Teri, are you back?
Teri: I’m back.
Carla: Oh good! We are getting her back. Teri, I have been vamping.
This is the time of all times to do the most resting back into the power of the spirit and to stay in your integrity as a person who truly does wish to be a lighthouse, and just to be transparent to the light that is coming through.
So if you happen to have a problem here or a problem there, you know it is just a way to hone your attention and help you do a little bit better or more truly, or at a deeper level, what you believe is true. It is really a time when, if you are having a difficulty, it is a great time to witness. Are you back, Wynn?
Wynn: I am back.
Carla: Okay, good.
Wynn: Thank you for taking over! It is a good thing I have a pro here!
I spoke to Carla earlier. She and I have never discussed this particular topic, but I said I am going to bring it up because [it is an] area that could be very important to me in the future. I am never sure what is going to happen but there has been an awful lot of talking about…
(Again the connection goes dead.)
Carla: Have you lost him again? (Sings) Alleluia. There you go. Alleluia.
Wynn: Is that better?
Carla: I can hear you now.
Wynn: You know (the interference here is terrible on) BBS. You can just call the conference line number, you know if you really get stuck, so actually, Carla?
Wynn: I think probably the topic is a big one, that’s how we have all this static.
Carla: That is probably so. You are absolutely right. There is often a lot of resistance when you get on a really good topic.
Wynn: Yes. The topic is disclosure. Disclosure is a word that is used by UFO buffs concerning a government.
(Again Wynn’s and Teri’s lines go dead.)
Carla: I seem to be the only one with a good clear line. I hope that I am also on a good clear line to spirit tonight! Wynn usually pokes me with a stick and then I have an opinion. But actually I don’t generally have opinions until somebody asks me, because what I love to do is support, encourage and help people. And really the way you do that is, you are not talking, right? You are listening and then finding ways to say, “Okay, where is the love in this situation?” That generally is the way my counseling sessions go. We just talk. There is nothing that I have that is like a dogma or, “This is what you should do,” or anything like that. We just talk around [the subject] and try to find out where the love is here, and how can we magnify that love and, as I said before, lessen distortion.
But I think Wynn is awfully good for me because, like Don Elkins, he is a natural skeptic and he is a salesman. I don’t mean that in a bad way. I think there are just people that can sell. There are people that see the value of things and they are good with words. And he’s wonderful. When Wynn came to a UFO Congress at which I was speaking at one time, we sold out everything on our table because Wynn would go up to people and say, “You’ve got to read this book.”
So my relationship [with Wynn] is long and cordial. I think the world of Wynn. He chews things over endlessly. He’ll think about it this way and he’ll think about it that way. And he’ll think about, well if I put it this way, then how does that happen. So by the time he pokes me with a stick, he has started that [conversation] 38 different ways. It really makes for an interesting conversation.
Wynn: Are you talking about me?
Carla: Are you back? I was talking about you, yes. I was saying that the way that you are skeptical, the way you keep thinking different ways about things all of the time, and saying, “Well, if this is true, what about that and if that is true, what about this?” that you pretty well cover the waterfront. You have thought about things a lot of different ways. So by the time you poke me with a stick, you’ve got a really good question.
Wynn: It is a great responsibility to put stuff out to the public. And as you well know, there are people that are channels, and all they do is that they come out every week with a new channeling, “Here is what my voices said.” The interesting thing that is happening right now is some of those people who have been actually fairly nice are suddenly saying that ETs are about to land and they are going to be saving humanity. And I think, “Now I’ve been tracking them up till now. They seemed pretty good. And then suddenly they make statement like that. And if I didn’t know any better, I would just accept it because their channelings sound loving, except—I remember when I read Carla Rueckert’s Ra Material, they said [that the majority] of ETs were service-to-self and that this was a hands-off policy on Earth. The understanding I’ve had is that service-to-others spaceships are not going to land.
Carla: Certainly not. It’s too much of an infringement on free will and it emphasizes the physical. The physical is so transitory. This earthly life is so—not beside the point, I mean but it only contains the point. Let’s say it’s the circle around the exclamation point and the exclamation point is infinite and eternal. You focus on this physical part, the husk, and the husk is going to blow away. We know that. I mean, we all know that. So negative entities are waiting in the wings when a good person has a bad day. And by that I mean that there is a great desire out there for specific information, as I said before, and when you begin to want to give some specific information, when you want to sort of create a buzz or a drama somewhere in the midst of your personality shell, it detunes you to the point where you start picking this kind of information up.
I have seen so many credible, good channels go down this road. I will probably never have that temptation because I don’t feel that it would be helpful for me to create more fear than there already is. Positively oriented ET contacts] wouldn’t say that [they are going to rescue some people] because that is exclusionary and love is inclusionary. Everybody gets in. I’ve heard different versions of that. All the Wanderers are going to be picked up first, or all the ones who believe like this are going to be picked first and everybody else is going to be left behind.
Carla: There is fear stuff and there is love stuff, everywhere you look. And I really think it goes right back to discernment. What really vibrates to you? Does that echo in your heart? Does that resonate as being the truth? Is that the way positivity feels? I think for each person, the answer might be different. So you really need to trust yourself. Trust your ability to feel what’s for you, to feel that special resonance—almost as though you knew it before but you just have forgot, and then you hear it and you go, “Yes. That’s for me. That’s my truth.” And then you’ve got something!
It is too bad about the people that say that only the good guys are going to get picked up. And then, [it is also too bad about] the people who are saying, “We’re going to be taken over by the bad guys.” It’s really two different versions of the same kind of thing. In one way, you’re hooked into a dogma thing where you have to believe like that or you’re not going to be one of the ones who is picked up. And in the other way, you are doomed because the Earth is going to be taken over, in either case, what is happening? You are getting distracted from service to others.
Who cares if you are going to get picked up? Aren’t you going to be too busy taking care of whoever is around you? Aren’t you going to be the last one on the airplane? I plan to turn out the lights when I leave.
Wynn: There you go. Have you ever watched The Outer Limits TV show?
Carla: A couple of times, but I always go to sleep. As we grow old, who worries about how the trousers are rolled?  [Jim and I] go to sleep in front of the TV, Wynn. No, I haven’t seen too much of it. I’ve never seen a whole [episode] through.
Wynn: Right. Did you watch The Twilight Zone?
Carla: I couldn’t. I couldn’t watch it unless there was someone else in the house with me. I had too much imagination.
Wynn: Well one of the Outer Limits shows was kind of a classic. They had a bunch of ETs landing and they were going to help change our planet and their theme was “we come to serve you.”
Carla: [Is this] the idea of the cookbook?
Wynn: That’s what it was.
Carla: I read a short story like that, where the title [of a book the ETs had] was How to Serve Man and they discovered it was a cookbook. I can’t remember who wrote it—maybe Frederic Pohl? 
Wynn: That’s the story. It was absolutely grand! That was the name of the cookbook. Right.
So, in any case, one of the keys of discernment, in terms of figuring things out, is [thinking] that in the future, things were going to get better. We can just sit back and relax and wait for that to happen. People who do that are not coming from a positive place. They are actually taking people’s energies out of the now and into the future, into some time in the future when things will get better.
Things that are positive bring your energy into the here and now, and love into the here and now. When you move your energy into the here and now instead of waiting for the future, you are creating the future. You are creating it from now. Everyone who comes into the now and creates an intention is going to re-create reality.
Carla: That is right. You become a co-creator. You’ve become that magical personality that can create changes in consciousness at will.
Wynn: Yes. If enough people come into the now, theoretically, the whole [population] can shift into a positive outcome. With enough people in the vibration, you know, it will end up lifting for everyone else. The chances are, [it is] probably not going to happen. But we can always have the hopefulness that it will. Nonetheless, anyone who tells you that this is the future and this is the way things are happening, is obviously not co-creating the future. So automatically they have taken themselves outside of changing something and being a part of. “If it’s meant to be, it will be.” You know, a lot of people say that. “It’s God’s will. It is meant to be.”
When people tell me that, the hairs on my neck stand up, because they are automatically disempowering themselves. God works through us. We are co-creators with the universe. When we start doing that, the future changes. We have synchronicity. We have magic. You know, you think of somebody and they phone you. You think of something big and it happens. There is not a limit to the ability of a human to co-create. If you are just sitting and waiting, [it won’t happen]. You’ve got to start out with some kind of action. Call somebody up. Cheer somebody up. Do something that changes the energy, and then you change your own energy. [When] you start co-creating even in little ways, then you learn how to do that and you start doing it in new ways.
But most people don’t do it. Most people feel it’s got to come from outside to me, it’s got to come from the government, it’s got to come from ETs.
Carla: I think that there is a tremendous lack in this culture of ways that people can get even the slightest hint of their own power or how to nurture the power within them, much less how to use that power rightly. It is a disempowering culture. The desire of our economic and corporate reality is that it is desirable for us to be consumers and for us to consume in a certain amount and a certain order so that we can maximize the profits of corporations. People are caught in slavery to the corporations where, of course, we need the jobs and so, of course, we need to buy this and, of course, we need to max out our credit [cards]. You know that whole logic of being consumers, being good consumers. We don’t turn off the ads. We don’t turn off the buzz. We don’t turn off the distraction and the sleep.
That was Ra said, that the mass media was an agent of distraction and sleep.  They didn’t say it in a mean way. [They intimated] that there were tons of people with their hearts wide open, with their blue ray wide open, trying to write good stuff, trying to get good stuff on the mass media. But it wasn’t going to sell next to the sensational, “if it bleeds, it leads”, action, [with] more violence, more cleavage, tighter pants on the guys. You know, it is amazing how they dress office and military personnel! It distracts you, you see, so you don’t have your power. You have completely forgotten that you are even awake. You just sleep through life watching the TV and grabbing the gusto and having a great time, you know, in your own shallow way, but never finding out that, “By God, I’m human. My God, I’m a human being! Oh Lord, help me to become a human being. Help me to stop being a late second-density [being] and find that I am a physical being with the power to choose how I shall live and how my creation shall be.”
And it is not [done] in a grandiose way or an egoistic way. It is, “Oh my God, the Creator can come through me and out into the world and I can make a difference. And I can make a difference for myself. I can make a difference for the whole planet and say, I almost forgot, that’s why I came to lighten the consciousness on Planet Earth—by being a receptacle and a channel through which the Love and the light of the Creator flows.”
So it’s not so much that people are just deliberately giving away their power. It’s that the culture is disempowering. I think it is very difficult and it takes a great deal of courage to let it go, because it’s mother, it’s safe, it’s comfort.
Wynn: But there is fear.
Carla: Fear of what?
Wynn: The fear that if you let it go, nothing will take its place.
Carla: Oh, right. This lasts about 15 seconds if you ever actually let it go! Because all of a sudden, you are in inundated with reality. Wow!
Wynn: You know what we are doing here is not entertainment. I am going to show you the difference between distraction and co-creation. I mean, I do this with my callers. When you are watching TV, you are entertained and being distracted. Then you turn the TV off and you immediately feel empty, and you’ve got to plug something else in. “Hi, honey, blah, blah.” It’s like there is a constant kind of, some kind of …
Carla: A need for stimulation.
Wynn: For stimulation, yes. But when you are dealing with something spiritual, when you are dealing with co-creation, [and then] you stop, energy continues. I do this all the time with my callers. We could stop talking now. I’ll do it. I’ll stop talking for 30 seconds and you’ll notice that there is not this need to be entertained. You who are listening and coming along with us notice that when we stop talking, the energy is still present. Here we go.
Carla: (Sings) Halleluiah, halleluiah.
Wynn: Well to me, that is a really good test. You can try it in your own life. When you are with somebody, if you stop talking to them for 30 seconds, see if you get uncomfortable or if they get uncomfortable. [See] if you have to keep filling in spaces to keep a comfort zone. If you do, don’t judge yourself, but say, “That is distraction.”
Carla: Wasn’t that a nice meditation though, Wynn?
Wynn: Yeah, truthfully we could do that for 20 minutes or two hours.
Carla: But [the producer] on BBS would go crazy! Thirty seconds is about all that I think he could tolerate! I tried that once at church. I am a Reader, a chancel reader at my parish church. My preacher said, “You know it says, in the prayers of the people, form 2, “Silence may be kept.” [He asked me to] wait 30 seconds before I would [read the] Prayers of the People. It made the congregation so terribly uncomfortable! The priest said, “I guess you had just better count to five like everybody else does,” because they couldn’t take the silence.
(The tape is flipped.)
Wynn: One of the reasons that the three of us can go silent so easily is because there is not one of us who is competing with the other. There is no one-up-man-ship. No one cares. Every one of us has a high intention and so it doesn’t matter who is talking, [who is] the center of attention. We are just going to glow and the glow creates a loving space so that those people who are listening can see how that feels.
And every one of you can practice figuring out how to invoke that in your own life, to create relationships [such as this] with people. Try it with somebody. Say, “Let’s sit quietly and see if anything happens.” If you say it wrong, it sounds like you are joining a church. No! Say, “These guys said that if we just are quiet and we ask for higher forces to come in, that we’ll have an experience. Let’s try it and see if it works.” Once you get the hang of it, you’ll start to become a co-creator with those forces and start lifting out of the impact of the lower worlds. The reason you are distracted is because you are trying to get out of your own prison. You are imprisoned. And if for a moment you are not imprisoned, then you know what, you are still imprisoned! You haven’t gotten out of the prison.
Carla: Do you know what a quick way is to break out? If it is someone that you trust, sit beside them and look into their eyes. Not at their eyes butinto the black part of the eyes, where the light is actually going into the soul. And as you look into their eyes, you begin to see the Creator.
Carla: Another way, if you don’t have another person around, is to get into a place where you really can’t hear any cars and you can’t see anything except just nature. Then you go up and touch a tree with both hands, and you put your forehead on the tree and you wait. And you will feel the Creator. You are choosing tress not because they are the only living things in creation but because they are the old ones, and [you say, “Thank you so much!” They love you so dearly! That it is just a pleasure.
Wynn: We had better get off of BBS because we are running four minutes late and Donna is having conniptions!
Carla: Okay, I guess I’ll see you next time then.
Wynn: Yeah we are going to be on in three weeks. Thank you, Teri! Thank you everybody listening! We’ve only got a few seconds so just let’s just take a moment and send love to each other silently. Feel the space!
By the way, those of you that felt the space when we were silent, when we hang up, when we leave, don’t jump up and do something distracting. Hold that space. Lie down on your bed and say, “Okay, I want to feel that space. And I am going to send the energy so that you can feel it. I’m feeling it even though we are disconnected.” The phone is not necessary to feel it. So let’s just have the intention to hold it for the next half hour and learn how to do that. Okay?
Wynn: See you next time.
 This is a sideways reference to the poetry of T. S. Eliot. In his poem, “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock”, Eliot moans, “I grow old … I grow old … I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.”
 Carla got the author wrong. Wikipedia says that "To Serve Man" is a science-fiction short story written by Damon Knight. It first appeared in the November 1950 issue of Galaxy Science Fiction and has been reprinted a number of times and was made into an episode of the television showThe Twilight Zone.
 In Session 34, recorded March 4, 1981, the following exchange took place between Don and those of Ra:
QUESTIONER: What is the general overall effect of television on our society with respect to this catalyst?
RA: I am Ra. Without ignoring the green-ray attempts of many to communicate via this medium such information of truth and beauty as may be helpful, we must suggest that the sum effect of this gadget is that of distraction and sleep.